Thank you, James, for drawing attention to a crying need (words chosen carefully).
As you know, P4C has been going in the UK for 30 years, and has certainly made an impact. But it has never been mandated. I agree with you that that would not be a good thing. It does, however, make it more difficult to spread the practice ('Community of inquiry') - not least because it does not have a place in teacher education.
I also agree that it could be good to promote the practice under different titles, and your proposal of 'Making Sense' has much to recommend it.
Some comments have suggested that the theme / practice could be incorporated into RE or PSHE, but both of those have limitations, not least because they have a recommended 'curriculum' (a word appropriately derived from Latin = 'course to run'!).
The latter, particularly, reflects adults concerns rather than young people's. I long ago argued for a blending of the two under the title of PSP - Personal and Social Philosophy.
It is actually time that society faced up to the fact that Religious Education is no longer suitable in a secular age, but could be appropriately reframed as an important aspect of young people's philosophical education.
I have just returned from a get-together of European P4C practitioners in Malta. We were impressed to find that the Maltese government has enabled secondary students to opt for Ethics rather than RE lessons within its National Curriculum, and encourages teachers of Ethics to draw on the P4C / Community of Inquiry pedagogy.
Such a step would have been inconceivable even 20 years ago, but 2012 saw a sea-change in Maltese politics and society, and the government has responded accordingly.
I continue to wish you, and like minded colleagues, support and success in your own project, of rethinking (and reforming) education in the UK and beyond.
I like the idea of unstructured inquiry discussion in secondary school. My high school literature class tended to drift away from the assigned text to this sort of "sense making" around the evergreen topics, usually tied to a theme in the text.
I would facilitate the "making sense" lesson differently in primary schools, framing it as an opportunity to share their wonderings/questions about the world aloud. I'd focus the conversation on asking detailed questions and building on each other's thinking with adjacent questions. I'd record all questions and we could vote to undertake an investigation into certain, appropriate questions in small groups during relevant subject lessons. (For example, a curiosity about birds flying but not other animals, leads to an investigation about bone density, lift in flight, and musculoskeletal systems.) Thanks for sharing this "making sense" lesson idea.
Love this Christina. This sounds great - I agree you'd have to do it differently in primary. But it blows my mind how adept even very young children are at having these open-ended philosophical discussions... The kids are all right you know!!!
How lovely would this be to end the week, and to give kids the chance to speak freely, which they don’t get throughout lesson time. I really hope some can implement it.
You raise that not all teachers would be up for this - what about children, would they also get a choice? (They would exercise one anyway, I suppose, through choosing to participate or not.)
I’m just thinking of how enthusiastic I would be about such an idea and the actual reaction of one of my children who, while happily engaging in these discussions in natural circumstances of their own choosing, was fairly horrified by the concept of pastoral type topics in tutorial. Responses were along the lines of “My thoughts are my own” and “if I did need to discuss that, I wouldn’t want to do so in a room full of random teenagers.”
I think the conclusion I’m getting to is that the psychological safety very much needs to come first, and is inherently really really difficult to come across fully in a school/classroom environment full of random children. In theory this might help build it but you also need it to be already there… how would you navigate that in a universal rollout?
Thanks so much for this comment – you’ve really made me think!
I've facilitated P4C sessions for many years in a range of settings, and it has never occurred to me that some of the participants might not have felt safe. I don’t *think* they did - but then they would be unlikely to say so. But there are reasons to believe that these sessions were generally well received - they were often highly rated by students.
Often, students with high prior attainment struggled with them - especially at first - because it isn’t obvious how you “win” in a philosophical inquiry, and high-achieving students are good at playing the game of school and winning at it. But I don’t think they felt unsafe.
Some children are naturally less extrovert than others, and for many it’s a really big deal to speak in front of so many people. I always give students the right to pass or opt out - I know many schools have a “no opt out” rule these days, but I’m not in that camp.
Many students choose to sit and listen rather than contributing, and I think that’s OK. But over time, I almost always find that more and more people feel comfortable contributing over time. I would sometimes use strategies to limit the extent to which more confident voices would dominate the discussion, like giving students 3 tickets to help make sure they choose their. contributions wisely. I would also let students sit next to someone of their choosing, and every so often - especially when many people are wanting to speak - we would do a turn and talk so they each got the chance to speak and listen. If I hear someone saying something interesting in a turn and talk, I might ask them to repeat it to the whole group, again giving them an opt-out.
I could go on, but essentially, having run many such sessions, I take your challenge seriously but I don’t think it’s a serious problem when handled well.
To your final question – how would I navigate this in a universal rollout? – I'm not really sure what this means, but I don't think it should be mandated by politicians. As Michael Fullan says, if you want to kill an idea, mandate it. Rather, I envision a process whereby some schools trial it with willing teachers and classes first, then learn and iterate from there. If it is to take root, the idea will need to grow organically... I think!
Love this. Wondering whether you have read much of Beverley and Etienne Wenger's stuff on Communities of Practice? The framework seems very similar to what you have written about here! This is something that I am pretty passionate about exploring with teachers as a whole, but engaging young students in this kind of thing also opens up really powerful opportunities. Wondering whether this might be something my school could explore further...
With collaborative planning time done in Department meetings Team Teaching presentatiins fir introducing individual topics could be delivered aross Year Groups in assemblies perhaps.
I started reading this and immediately thought, this sounds like P4C! Then I read a bit more and found that wasn’t coincidental….I agree with you but given curriculum pressures in primary school, I can see practical problems in getting schools to do it. One nice fox might be for the curriculum review to broaden RE into RE and ethics and allow for P4C as a component.
'Curriculum pressures' today must not be used to ignore or avoid making time for essential sessions that are mire important than SATS that very few want or need!
This is true and in a short comment, I may have fallen into the “Ofsted won’t like it” trap that leads a lot of people astray. What I was really trying to say is that because Ofsted can deep dive any curriculum area, a primary school will have a subject coordinator for all of them trying to make sure that you do everything to make their subject look good. As a good colleague, you will see all your colleagues’ points and make sure you deliver all of their curriculum areas in exemplary fashion. Do that and deliver Maths and English well and there is just no time left! I agree an SLT making this a priority could do it but so much better if it could be included as part of RE or an expanded PHSE option.
Great idea James - and not to flog a dead horse - a perfect way of preparing the ground for my 20% proposal. It has similarities to John O'Neill's NEEDS EU Horizon project currently being trialled in four secondary schools in Limerick. The circle is a magic shape and has a magical effect on relationships - I talk about my experience of creating a 'class meeting' in chapter 6 of my book.
Your focus on collaborative planning time felt very relevant. It raises useful questions about how schools use time and what is prioritised.
We allocate collaborative planning time for all teams within the timetable in my school.
I would be interested to know what you have seen in schools for it to work well?
Thank you, James, for drawing attention to a crying need (words chosen carefully).
As you know, P4C has been going in the UK for 30 years, and has certainly made an impact. But it has never been mandated. I agree with you that that would not be a good thing. It does, however, make it more difficult to spread the practice ('Community of inquiry') - not least because it does not have a place in teacher education.
I also agree that it could be good to promote the practice under different titles, and your proposal of 'Making Sense' has much to recommend it.
Some comments have suggested that the theme / practice could be incorporated into RE or PSHE, but both of those have limitations, not least because they have a recommended 'curriculum' (a word appropriately derived from Latin = 'course to run'!).
The latter, particularly, reflects adults concerns rather than young people's. I long ago argued for a blending of the two under the title of PSP - Personal and Social Philosophy.
It is actually time that society faced up to the fact that Religious Education is no longer suitable in a secular age, but could be appropriately reframed as an important aspect of young people's philosophical education.
I have just returned from a get-together of European P4C practitioners in Malta. We were impressed to find that the Maltese government has enabled secondary students to opt for Ethics rather than RE lessons within its National Curriculum, and encourages teachers of Ethics to draw on the P4C / Community of Inquiry pedagogy.
Such a step would have been inconceivable even 20 years ago, but 2012 saw a sea-change in Maltese politics and society, and the government has responded accordingly.
I continue to wish you, and like minded colleagues, support and success in your own project, of rethinking (and reforming) education in the UK and beyond.
Thanks for this Roger - much obliged! And agree re: RE :)
I like the idea of unstructured inquiry discussion in secondary school. My high school literature class tended to drift away from the assigned text to this sort of "sense making" around the evergreen topics, usually tied to a theme in the text.
I would facilitate the "making sense" lesson differently in primary schools, framing it as an opportunity to share their wonderings/questions about the world aloud. I'd focus the conversation on asking detailed questions and building on each other's thinking with adjacent questions. I'd record all questions and we could vote to undertake an investigation into certain, appropriate questions in small groups during relevant subject lessons. (For example, a curiosity about birds flying but not other animals, leads to an investigation about bone density, lift in flight, and musculoskeletal systems.) Thanks for sharing this "making sense" lesson idea.
Love this Christina. This sounds great - I agree you'd have to do it differently in primary. But it blows my mind how adept even very young children are at having these open-ended philosophical discussions... The kids are all right you know!!!
Really appreciate your provocations which so often resonate. Perceptual neuroscience goes really well alongside this as it supports how we make sense.
Indeed! In terms of research and theory there is an embarrassment of riches to support such a thing...
How lovely would this be to end the week, and to give kids the chance to speak freely, which they don’t get throughout lesson time. I really hope some can implement it.
Working on it darlin'!
You raise that not all teachers would be up for this - what about children, would they also get a choice? (They would exercise one anyway, I suppose, through choosing to participate or not.)
I’m just thinking of how enthusiastic I would be about such an idea and the actual reaction of one of my children who, while happily engaging in these discussions in natural circumstances of their own choosing, was fairly horrified by the concept of pastoral type topics in tutorial. Responses were along the lines of “My thoughts are my own” and “if I did need to discuss that, I wouldn’t want to do so in a room full of random teenagers.”
I think the conclusion I’m getting to is that the psychological safety very much needs to come first, and is inherently really really difficult to come across fully in a school/classroom environment full of random children. In theory this might help build it but you also need it to be already there… how would you navigate that in a universal rollout?
Thanks so much for this comment – you’ve really made me think!
I've facilitated P4C sessions for many years in a range of settings, and it has never occurred to me that some of the participants might not have felt safe. I don’t *think* they did - but then they would be unlikely to say so. But there are reasons to believe that these sessions were generally well received - they were often highly rated by students.
Often, students with high prior attainment struggled with them - especially at first - because it isn’t obvious how you “win” in a philosophical inquiry, and high-achieving students are good at playing the game of school and winning at it. But I don’t think they felt unsafe.
Some children are naturally less extrovert than others, and for many it’s a really big deal to speak in front of so many people. I always give students the right to pass or opt out - I know many schools have a “no opt out” rule these days, but I’m not in that camp.
Many students choose to sit and listen rather than contributing, and I think that’s OK. But over time, I almost always find that more and more people feel comfortable contributing over time. I would sometimes use strategies to limit the extent to which more confident voices would dominate the discussion, like giving students 3 tickets to help make sure they choose their. contributions wisely. I would also let students sit next to someone of their choosing, and every so often - especially when many people are wanting to speak - we would do a turn and talk so they each got the chance to speak and listen. If I hear someone saying something interesting in a turn and talk, I might ask them to repeat it to the whole group, again giving them an opt-out.
I could go on, but essentially, having run many such sessions, I take your challenge seriously but I don’t think it’s a serious problem when handled well.
To your final question – how would I navigate this in a universal rollout? – I'm not really sure what this means, but I don't think it should be mandated by politicians. As Michael Fullan says, if you want to kill an idea, mandate it. Rather, I envision a process whereby some schools trial it with willing teachers and classes first, then learn and iterate from there. If it is to take root, the idea will need to grow organically... I think!
Yes, again another intriguing post and thoughts to ponder, thank you James.
As for topic suggestions, how about these 100+ life skills ideas?
Bite sized, 10-15 minute recordings to raise essential awareness in young people.
All free, just subscribe and help yourself.
www.nlsa.uk
Enjoy:
Dr.Laurence H Brown.
Thanks Laurence - what an amazing resource!!
Yes, again another intriguing post and thoughts to ponder, thank you James.
As for topic suggestions, how about these 100+ life skills ideas?
Bite sized, 10-15 minute recordings to raise essential awareness in young people.
All free, just subscribe and help yourself.
www.nlsa.uk
Enjoy:
Dr.Laurence H Brown.
Yes, again another intriguing post and thoughts to ponder, thank you James.
As for topic suggestions, how about these 100+ life skills ideas?
Bite sized, 10-15 minute recordings to raise essential awareness in young people.
All free, just subscribe and help yourself.
www.nlsa.uk
Enjoy:
Dr.Laurence H Brown.
Love this. Wondering whether you have read much of Beverley and Etienne Wenger's stuff on Communities of Practice? The framework seems very similar to what you have written about here! This is something that I am pretty passionate about exploring with teachers as a whole, but engaging young students in this kind of thing also opens up really powerful opportunities. Wondering whether this might be something my school could explore further...
Hi Tom. I have dabbled but not for a long while - thanks for the reminder! Let me know if you decide to pursue it at your school!!
With collaborative planning time done in Department meetings Team Teaching presentatiins fir introducing individual topics could be delivered aross Year Groups in assemblies perhaps.
Love it!
I started reading this and immediately thought, this sounds like P4C! Then I read a bit more and found that wasn’t coincidental….I agree with you but given curriculum pressures in primary school, I can see practical problems in getting schools to do it. One nice fox might be for the curriculum review to broaden RE into RE and ethics and allow for P4C as a component.
'Curriculum pressures' today must not be used to ignore or avoid making time for essential sessions that are mire important than SATS that very few want or need!
Easy to say if you are not being judged on SATs and curriculum coverage by Ofsted.
Indeed. Although - for all their faults - Ofsted are often supportive of schools who strike out and do bold things that align with their values.
This is true and in a short comment, I may have fallen into the “Ofsted won’t like it” trap that leads a lot of people astray. What I was really trying to say is that because Ofsted can deep dive any curriculum area, a primary school will have a subject coordinator for all of them trying to make sure that you do everything to make their subject look good. As a good colleague, you will see all your colleagues’ points and make sure you deliver all of their curriculum areas in exemplary fashion. Do that and deliver Maths and English well and there is just no time left! I agree an SLT making this a priority could do it but so much better if it could be included as part of RE or an expanded PHSE option.
Great idea James - and not to flog a dead horse - a perfect way of preparing the ground for my 20% proposal. It has similarities to John O'Neill's NEEDS EU Horizon project currently being trialled in four secondary schools in Limerick. The circle is a magic shape and has a magical effect on relationships - I talk about my experience of creating a 'class meeting' in chapter 6 of my book.
Indeed Derry - I'm building up to that!! I think one lesson a week sounds a little less daunting - but it's a start...